11 posts from May 2008

An alternative voice to the Israeli-Palestinian Issue.

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Welcome to my blog.......

Many of us who do not belong to a religion or do not believe in God are very worried about some of the events which are being played out each day by some people in the religious world.  Some of the things occurring are minor things which we can over look, however there are certain things which cannot be over looked, because these activities actually threaten life as we know it.

From talking to many atheists I get the feeling that they do not wish to destroy religion, but instead wish to be free from its domineering nature.  Sam Harris is on record as saying the problem with religious moderates is that they give cover to the extreme elements in religion, and sadly I now have to agree with him. At present rightly or wrongly it appears that in the main the only people prepared to really stand up to the extremist views in Christianity, are the atheists and the secularists. 

We continually hear the call for Muslims to denounce the extremist elements in their religion, and many have been doing so for sometime now, although at times it seems their voices are purposefully ignored. 

I think it is really time for the sake of this planet’s future that those who are not from the Religious Right be prepared to join forces and stand up to the Religious Right and their extreme and sometimes dangerous views.

The reason some secularists appear hostile towards Christianity at present, is because we can see the writing on the wall as the Religious Right’s power starts to have a greater influence on our politics, both on our domestic and on our foreign policies. Just as many stereotype all Muslims as terrorists, it can be just as easy to stereotype many American Christians as religious extremists.

I do notice in the comments sections of some articles written about some of those in the Religious Right, that some Christians are labelling some sections of the Right as not being a true reflection of Christianity and calling them a cult.   That acknowledgement is refreshing, but it will not be enough to stand up against the very well organized Religious Right, we will need prominent lobby groups to get our message across and it will mean the joining of forces of people of religious and of non-religious backgrounds in order to make an impact.

I recently got tangled up in a discussion here at Vox, where a group of Christians were actively promoting a petition to ban Muslims from practicing Islam in this country.  Some of the supporters went even further and wanted all Muslims deported from here and one wanted to go even further still and nuke Afghanistan and Pakistan and eventually destroy the religion of Islam. A couple of the people in support of the petition were hopefully acting due to fear of the unknown, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt. However I believe these views are still extreme and are definitely not a solution for peace in this country or the world. 

I have decided not to protect religious extremists anymore here at Vox, but instead out them.  So if anyone is interested here are the links to the posts in question:  Proposed Constitutional Amendment Against Islam Post 1 and Post 2.  I may actually be running the risk of promoting this petition and as a result more people may sign it, but that is the risk I am prepared to take.

One glaring thing was that only one Christian stood up and opposed this view at these posts.  Perhaps those who knew about it thought it was a waste of time opposing it, as the petition wouldn’t get very far, but is it right to look the other way and say nothing, as isn’t that as good as agreeing with them.  I don’t think we can afford to continue to look the other way, when our country is literally being hijacked by the Religious Right.

The other possibility is some Christians may have actually agreed with their stand, but were too afraid to say so.  However to be fair there have been a number of other posts mentioning these posts and some Christians have opposed the petition on those posts. 

One of the points made in the discussion of the petition against Muslims was a point which was continually made and I have seen this point made elsewhere as well, is that Christianity has the ability to reel in the rogue and extremist elements of Christianity, and adjust and contain their extremist views.  But I really wonder if this is always true, because it seems to me that this is not quite true.  Also when the people promoting this petition were accused of being extreme in their views, they could not see that this was so.   

They cited two examples of Christians bringing other Christians into line.

The first example was WBC and it’s picketing of returned soldiers funerals.   I agree that Christians have spoken out about this deplorable act.  However another person challenged this argument by saying, “Yes, but where was the Christian outcry when WBC was only targeting the funerals of gay men?”  To date there has not been a reply and there won’t be given the time that has elapsed.

The second example was the FLDS issue, and how the authorities in Texas had removed the children from ongoing abuse at the FLDS property in Texas and this was cited as a case of Christians bringing other Christians into line.  Once again this was challenged, given that this situation is not a recent situation and I read an article yesterday which indicates that this issue had been ignored for about 50 years due to the problems authorities had with prosecuting people back in 1953.   So effectively this situation has been ignored for half a century and now that some action was taken in Texas, Christians believe they can take the credit for helping to bring about this change – I am sorry I don’t think so, not if the facts about how the Texas authorities came to take action are looked at.  

The massive raid on Eldorado compound was triggered by telephone calls to an abuse hot line in which a woman claimed to be an underage wife with children at the compound. Those calls are now believed to have been a hoax.

By writing this post I am not discounting the obvious fact that the extremist views of some followers of Islam are a real threat to the peace in this world, and it is a problem which needs to be addressed.  But it is wrong to punish a whole people due to the actions of some.  It is however our duty as Americans to reel in the rogue elements amongst ourselves, whether they be people of faith or not.  Unfortunately, I do see many in the Religious Right as a danger to not only our own country, but also to the rest of the world.

Some Christians simply dismiss these Christian extremists as people without any influence and we shouldn’t take any notice of them.  I disagree, when some of these people have the ear of our politicians and strongly lobby our politicians then we do have to take notice.

Obviously I cannot name all of them, but they all hang out together so that makes it rather easy.

Let’s start with pastor Rod Parsley who believes we are a “Christian Nation” who in part was formed to see the destruction of Islam. One of the things I was told at the infamous Vox post was,

“Presently, I don't see Christians invading other people's land in the name of Christianity”

Let’s quote Rod Parsley:

From his book, Silent No More in a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion.  At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

Some of what he says in his book in regards to Islam is quoted in this video clip:

“Islam is an anti Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world.  The fact is America was founded, I am going to stagger you right now, America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed.  Muhammad received revelations from demon spirits not from the living God.  America has historically understood herself to be a bastion against Islam in the world.  In fact I will tell you this I do not believe our nation can fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam." 

The final part of the clip:  “We were built for the battle, we were created for the conflict, we get off on warfare.” Can be seen in its original context in this clip.  The Commander and Chief he is referring to is God and I am unsure if he is referring to real war or a spiritual war.

Unfortunately the person who made this clip over emphasized, “we get off on warfare” and I feel that should not have been done, but the message of Rod’s is still clear.

In Parsley’s book he also bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim”.  Maybe instead of bemoaning the fact, he should ask the question why?  What is Islam offering that Christianity is not?

Testimony from a Californian lady, who was a practicing Christian and an active member in her nearby Presbyterian church, wrote in her conversion story that despite her active affiliation with the church, she always had serious questions about the fundamentals of Christianity which did not make sense to her. The church couldn't give them good answers either, they only told them to "have faith". Her questions were answered when she took a course about Islam. "This class brought back all of the concerns that I had about Christianity. As I learned about Islam, all my questions were answered. All of us are not punished for Adam's original sin. Adam asked God for forgiveness and our merciful, loving God forgave him. God doesn't require a blood sacrifice in payment for sin. We must sincerely ask for forgiveness and amend our ways. Jesus wasn't God, he was a prophet like all of the other prophets. This answered all of my questions about the trinity and the nature of Jesus. I found a teaching that put everything in its proper perspective and appealed to my heart and my intellect. It seemed natural. It wasn't confusing. I had been searching and I had found a place to rest my faith."

I am not promoting Islam as a perfect religion, but it obviously appeals too many and testimony such as this indicates that Islam is quite often spread peacefully. Islam has just as much right to exist as any other religion, and just because it does not seem compatible with Christianity due to conflicting interpretations of dogma, doesn’t make it any less legitimate.  What right does a Christian have to say Christianity's view is correct and another's religion is not?  I no longer believe in God, but I do not expect people to denounce their God, but I do expect them to respect my right not to believe in God.  When I see truly spiritual people practice their religion in a fully compassionate and loving way, I am deeply moved and it moves my own spirit. But when I see people abuse people with their religion, I recoil in horror.

So let’s discuss Rod Parsley.  Here is a prominent pastor claiming that we as a “Christian nation” should destroy the religion of Islam.  This man has also endorsed a presidential candidate and the candidate has accepted his endorsement.  I think this would qualify as a potential sign of a “Christian nation” supporting massive invasion and destruction of lands and people in the name of Christianity.  

Another point about this situation is that it portrays a very strong message to the Islamic communities around the world, it reinforces what the likes of Osama Bin Laden has been telling Muslims, that America does want to destroy Islam. So we are playing straight into the hands of the Islamic terrorists and we are creating the potential for more terrorists to be born. 

Also what is the difference between an Islamic cleric shouting, “Death to America” in the name of Islam and what Rod Parsley is shouting in the name of Christianity – NOTHING!

Also where does this attitude leave the 7 million Muslims living peacefully in this country, what sort of a terrible message is this sending to them?

One more point before I move on.  America was not founded with the intention of seeing Islam destroyed.  The Treaty of Tripoli indicates this.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."(Musselmen means Muslim)

So as far as Parsley is concerned, I think here we have an extremist in out midst’s going virtually unchecked by mainstream Christianity. He also just happens to be a member of CUFI, along with John Hagee who must be without doubt currently the most prominent “End Timer” in our country.

So what is John Hagee and CUFI promoting? Let me see. We should attack Iran with a preemptive nuclear strike and he quotes Biblical verses to back his claim. His motive is so that Israel stays intact and let’s be honest, he wants Israel intact initially so that his “End Time Prophesy” can come true and part of the strike on Iran is to do with his prophesy. So I would classify that as attacking a country in the name of Christianity and not necessarily in defense.

What else does CUFI promote? It promotes that Israel should not give up any land to Palestine, even though the land in question is what is rightfully theirs as stated by UN guidelines. So rather than encouraging peace, as I would have thought most Christians would be about, he and his followers demand (Update on Annapolis Rapid Response Action Alert) that the US government not put any pressure on Israel to give up any land and their reasoning once again is purely biblical, and has to do with End Time Prophesy, as Israel must remain intact and not be divided for the prophesy to unfold as planned. So instead of promoting peace and looking out for the long term welfare of the Palestinians and the Israelis, he and his group are more interested in their own interests i.e. their version of the “End Time Prophesy”. Interesting article: 5 Myths on Who's Really 'Pro-Israel'

Here is what his followers believe, which shows Hagee’s real intention:

Near the end of this video Hagee makes the Jewish claim for Israel based on it being passed down through Abraham to his son Isaac.  Here is another item of contention, as that is not how Islam sees it. Hagee ignores Abraham’s son Ishmael who it is said that the Muslims descended from and according to Islam the Muslims also have a right to the Holy land.  Who is right and who is wrong, well who would know, but according to the Bible Abraham was buried and there were two mourners, Isaac and Ishmael -- together.  Genesis 25.  Wouldn’t it be nice for the rest of the world if the Jews and the Muslims could share the land equally?  Some of us are sick of the squabbling over this piece of land.

The views of Hagee and CUFI which seem to be influencing our foreign policy have grave implications for the rest of the world. So I consider them extreme, as they may create a nuclear war which may destroy our planet.   It is time to bring them to task.  See this website for a more rational view and a starting point at tackling the Christian extremists.  Challenging Christian Zionism  I would also suggest the book The Left Hand of God

I have another concern about the Religious Right and the preaching of the “End Times Prophesy” and that is the negative impact it is having in some third world countries.  Take for instance missionary work in Uganda, here is a well meaning missionary preaching the gospel and sadly also preaching “End Time Prophesy”. The effects of this prophesy in a country where many have a poor life with little opportunities results in many giving up on their future.

As a Uganda Newspaper editor Andrew Mwenda states, he is appalled by these Doomsday preachers, who he believes are converting young people and diverting them from fulfilling their potential and pursuing their careers. Instead of people coming up with man made solutions to their problems, they are turning to prayer so that the world may end quicker and their problems will be over.

Uganda Teacher Julius Othieno describes children being taken out of school as there is no point in schooling if the end is near.  Children are praying all night for the end of the world and not being able to concentrate in school during the day. Also children are not taking medicine when they are ill, in order to hasten their death.

In the 1990s the Ugandan AIDS infection rate was cut from 30 to 5%, unfortunately now people are not using condoms for protection, because what is the point if the world is coming to an end, so sadly as a consequence the infection rate is once again climbing

So this type of preaching is having a severe negative impact. Therefore this situation is also something Christianity really does need to address.

I would suggest watching this documentary which looks at the negative effects of teaching End Times Prophesy.

 

The Doomsday Code.

I really have to question the real social conscience of the Religious Right when their commentators write articles such as this: “God’s Choice for President”

 

What a brilliant word!

Oh yes I have been busy tracking down the crazy goings on of the Rapture Ready people.

 

By the way the current Rapture Ready Index is blowing a fuse, it is at:

 

Well actually I probably don't have to fasten my seat belt as I will be left behind.  

But I am sure there are some very excited people out there living in hope. 

But don't get too excited as the all time record reading was: 182.

The record low was 57 in 1993, they must have been very depressing times indeed for 1/3 of this country's population.

 

Oh so back to this new word. Yes it came from an email sent into the Rapture Ready website.  If it wasn't for the new word, I think I could have written it myself on a very bad day when I was cursing the crazy goings on of the extremists in our midst's!

 

 

So here is the letter.  It made a nice change to the emails coming from the "rapturees."

 

 

You're all morons, and I'll tell you why. You are not just sitting around waiting for the "rapture", but you and other evangelicals, some in high places, Christian Zionists, neocon politicians in Washington, Jewish Zionists in Tel Aviv, are actively trying to involve the entire world in the most hideous war in history. The sheer arrogance of your stance is astounding. If you're wrong, (and of course you are), but successful, then your delusional superstitious psychosis will be responsible for the deaths of millions, if not billions. You'll all be murderers worse that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and the crusaders all rolled into one. But you don't care. To you, vindication and realization of your phantasmagoric philosophy is worth the destruction of civilization.

It's criminally insane. If there is a benevolent god, (S)he was not the author of such nonsense. Where did you get such monstrous ideas? Oh yeah. I forgot. The bible. That good book where god kills millions, murders children, has men rape little girls, orders his creatures to own slaves, and commits just about every other crime imaginable. And that's just the old testament. The new testament has its own peculiar brand of criminality, cleverly cloaked behind a kinder and gentler facade ((excludng revalations, (from the knder gentler part) of course)).

Think! Use your brain for once. Isn't it a lot more likely that a bunch of deranged, desert brain-fried kooks came up with all that garbage? That god didn't write a book at all? What the hell's wrong with you people? Live and let live. Jeezus!!

Yes I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I am sorry but I can't take the people carrying on about Oprah and her latest New Age doctrine seriously. 

What a carry on!

Hello people lighten up!

Your videos condemning her are equally as weird!

As for the comments left at YouTube - What a riot!

ROTFL

I was told to spread the word, so I am a spreading it!

If you notice on the side of my blog I mention something about calling for peace and being told I was paving the way for the Anti - Christ and I thought, "What the hell, I thought that's what Christians are supposed to do.  What planet are you from?"

Well it appears he was from planet Earth.  It seems according to "Don't Drink the Kool-Aid" that the coming of an international peace movement signals, "What we knew was coming, but did we know it was already here?"

But what did we know was coming, what is already here?  Please tell me I don't know!

"They (Oprah's people) actually tell you the course is MindTraining" 

Shock horror so it seems, they even admit their sinister plan! 

Oh no! THEY (RW nutters) say Oprah is into brainwashing!

Of course THEY would know wouldn't THEY!  Always best to get an expert's opinion and I think they are the experts in the field of brainwashing.

BUT that's not all ............

Oprah's staggering influence!

The prophetic meaning of Oprah's name!

Obama's and his rise to power!
 
Oprah's support for Obama!

and much more evil as well.

But be warned unless you have a biblical background, you may not pick up on the signs that show you that this is a long calculated plan orchestrated by one who has been around since the fall of man. 

I obviously don't have the right background as this was totally lost on me.

By the way to those of you who are genuinely horrified about Oprah's latest tangent there is a difference between mind training and brainwashing.  Also if people want to try this method of help good luck to them, I wish them every success. 

I will be totally honest, these videos denouncing Oprah and all of the other people they have denounced, are text book examples of videos designed to keep the totally brainwashed, brainwashed and they totally repulse me and make my skin crawl.  I am not endorsing Oprah's self help program, but I am denouncing these ridiculous videos.

Recently I was in a debate in which the religion of Islam was condemned quite strongly.  At one point this comment was made by another:

"As much as you like to defend Mohammad being a prophet, I don't think a loving God would reveal Himself through a fornicator, polygamist rapist and mass murderer. Oh, and I forgot, a pedophile and misogynistic chauvinist."

I asserted that according to the Bible i had read, God had revealed himself to such people. 

Someone else has obviously done a bit of research, as here is a recent video showing some of the "Bad Boys of the Bible".

Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you

Sorry I had to put that little ditty in, I love that song.

From the video and from what I know about the Bible here is a bit of a list, not an endless list mind you, a bit of a list, if I wrote the whole list out I may as well reprint quite a bit of the Bible:

Paul was a murder before God appeared to him.

King Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines i.e. polygamist and fornicator and I guess misogynistic chauvinist could apply.  He wrote Proverbs,  Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon.

As far as polygamists are concerned well he wasn't alone, notable people included: Abraham, Moses and many others.

As I am sure we all know, quite a bit of murdering of innocent lives takes place in the Bible.  Here is one example:  Killing at God’s instructions with no signs of pity or compassion. Slaughtering old men, young men and maidens, women and children.  Lots of mass murder under God's command.

King David may have been a rapist.  If not a rapist he certainly did have sexual intercourse with a married woman which resulted in her having a son to David and then David had her husband killed and that would make him a murderer. Yes God was not happy with David's actions and God did punish David, by killing the child.  Maybe some think that was a fitting punishment for David, the death of an innocent child.  King David wrote Psalms.

So what is the point of all of this. 

Well really to say: Just be careful when you crap on someone else's religion that you haven't got some dirty little secrets in your own Holy Book.

Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you ..........